Three Victorians:
and
have in common first names that cannot be used without a second. You can’t simply say “John Mill” or “Frank Wright” or “James Whistler” *. But these aren’t hyphenated Roman Catholic names (John-Paul, for example) and they aren’t double-barreled last names. Wright — a very vain man (you see it in the photograph: look at the side-lighting and the necktie) — was always known (perhaps even to his parents) as “Mr Wright”; I’ve certainly never heard of anyone who addressed him as… “Frank”.
There are some others where the reason for the extra name is clear: Charles James Fox (a little earlier) was presumably named after the Stuart king from whom he was illegitimately descended. Isambard Kingdom Brunel’s name was always begging to be recited in full. Charles Lutwidge Dodgson’s first names are linguistically related to his pen-name, Lewis Caroll.
I expect there are loads more — Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, isn’t he one? Am I right that this is mostly a 19th century thing, and can anyone supply a convincing reason why it’s done? Why not “John Mill”, why is the “Stuart” necessary? Did his wife call him John Stuart? Reciting the extra name is, after all, an enormous waste of energy and time.
* (I don’t include George Bernard Shaw on the list, because he is also known — at least in Britain — as Bernard Shaw).
They’re always called “Maxwell’s Equations” not “Clerk Maxwell’s”.
JS’s distinguished dad is always called simply James Mill, but then Wikipedia leaves me with the impression that he had no middle name.
Maybe it’s to do with the shandy?
Yes, that would have been a good one. According to Wikipedia, Maxwell’s father had changed his name to Clerk Maxwell.
(I don’t include George Bernard Shaw on the list, because he was always better-known — at least in Britain — as Bernard Shaw).
Really? I’ve never heard of him called Bernard Shaw in Britain or elsewhere, and “GBS” was universal, I believe.
Ah, here’s a list (edited a little) of some eminent Victorians. You can perhaps guess what they had in common.
George Campbell – The 9th Duke of Argyll
William Cavendish – The 7th Duke of Devonshire
Edward Henry Stanley – The 15th Earl of Derby
James Russell Lowell – The American Ambassador to Britain
William Spottiswoode – Mathematician, Physicist, and the Queen’s Printer.
Joseph Dalton Hooker – Champion of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution.
Thomas Henry Huxley – Champion of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution.
Alfred Russel Wallace – co-founder of Natural Selection.
Sir John Lubbock – The 1st Baron of Avebury.
You’re a recent immigrant. Yes, the GBS, but in the past he was usually just called Bernard Shaw in Britain.
They all outlived Charles Darwin. Eminent pallbearers.
Darwin’s pallbearers: spot on. I am impressed.
Don’t be impressed. I just copied your list and pasted it into Google.
Offhand, I can’t think of anyone who might recognise a list of Darwin’s pallbearers.
Cheat! Cheat! Anyway, five sporting their middle names. Though not Great Colin.
That should really be “Son of Great Colin”, I think, to render the Gaelic properly. “Mac Cailein Mór”.
You know there’s also a famous Scottish architect called Colen Campbell (with an E).
I’d heard of him, but I didn’t know that he’d a variant spelling of his Christian name. So many Campbells are Colins that perhaps his Ma and Pa fancied a variant.
Alexander Graham Bell
In later eras:
Isaac Bashevis Singer
James Earl Jones
Jesse Colin Young
John Cougar Mellenkamp (I think his 3-part name was part of a vogue among popular male singers, and I also think he later dropped the “Cougar”.)
The addition of an extra name makes it easier to identify the person. It is said that 25% of American males are called John, so the extra name has a useful role. Some people also call themselves (at least for public purposes) J. Stuart Mill or W. Somerset Maugham, especially if their first name is very common.
popular male singers
I think I meant male popular singers
I second Marie-Lucie’s contention. When one of our names is Mary or John, we really have to do something to distinguish one from another. In history. Let us not even consider the internet. Is there any paired given name and family name that does NOT yield a New Age musician, alternative-medicine practicioner, or psychic consultant? I look forward to hearing about your alter-egos…
Sorry: Full disclosure: One of my given names is Mary.
I’ve certainly never heard of anyone who addressed him as… “Frank”.
Maybe Louis Sullivan.
About the dapper Mr Wright… a college friend of mine years ago described a meeting between his parents and FLW. Apparently Wright was kind of a fussy man and rather small (my friend insisted that the interiors of his buildings were rather small in scale, but then… read on). My friend’s parents were very tall: his father was over 6 ft, his mother close to 6 ft, and she was about 8 months pregnant at the time. Wright was introduced to them. He cowered for a moment and said: “My God, you’re so big.” And scuttled away.
My friend was 6’3″ and his brother was 6’5″, so perhaps that’s why Wright’s houses were “small in scale” to him.
Oh, M, thank you. I had imagined that even Sullivan would have called him “Wright”, just without the “Mr”. I’ve never heard of anyone who called him Frank — as opposed to, say, Frank Sinatra, you know, I can’t imagine anyone except waiters who didn’t call him Frank. But Wright: I’d wondered about that for years.
Mr Melonkampf could have just reverted to Cougar Mellenkamp and dropped the John.
You always see W. Somerset referred to in people’s diaries as “Willie Maugham”, so that Somerset seems to have been just for books. I think it was possibly one of those things where a family last name is used as a middle name and in Britain, in the snobby upwardly-mobile middle class, sometimes developed into a double-barreled name. My grandfather was Hunt, but some people thought he was Seager-Hunt.
My mother, who hated her entire name being only two syllables chose my first name, Jeremy, partly because it is three.
That’s a great story, mab. I hope they didn’t hire him for a house; a 6′-5″er in a Wright house would need a crash helmet indoors. Wright buildings are low, they always have the lowest possible ceiling height: even in a very vertical interior like the Guggenheim the entry and the ramps are very low, to make the maximum possible contrast to the main space. In other buildings he wanted them low to give his buildings a more horizontal line, but he probably had a greater tolerance for low spaces than some.
Robert Louis Stevenson
William Makepeace Thackeray
Edgar Allan Poe
This comment seems to have joined Vesla-loup -the-burn: I’ll try again.
Robert Louis Stevenson
William Makepeace Thackeray
Edgar Allan Poe
Well done, Dearie! Perfect examples. I’m sorry, it was labelled as potential spam. Goodness knows why, though.
Thomas Hart Benton was later, but he was named after his great-uncle, who was of course earlier.
Born in Vic times:
John Maynard Keynes
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Andrew Bonar Law
David Lloyd George
The first two are perfect.
I’m going to make a proper list later.
I’m not sure about the second two, though they fulfill most of the requirements they’re usually known by their middle and last names (I didn’t even know Bonar Law was an Andrew, but I’d also always assumed it was a double barreled last name).
I wonder if Christopher Robin counts? He’s post Vic. Nobody calls him anything but Christopher Robin, but nobody calls him Milne.
Winnie-the-Pooh counts, though.
Jorge Luis Borges counts?
Although their family and friends call him “Georgie”, and many others (including himself) just “Borges”
Oh, so my friend was right about the low ceilings in FLW buildings. I thought he was over-sensitive to scale. His parents’ kitchen was custom-made for them with high countertops and chairs. I felt like Goldilocks who kept sitting on the Daddy Bear’s chair.
Oh, he was definitely right. I have a memory of a 6′-6″ Wright ceiling somewhere, maybe the Robie House. That would be uncomfortable if you’re 6′-5″. Here it says he was 5′-7″.
Sure he counts! I couldn’t choose Spanish-language names, because I still don’t really understand the rules of how they work.
Franklin Roosevelt is not infrequently referred to without the Delano, but I don’t know about in his lifetime.
Winnie-the-Pooh definitely has a confusing name. When Christopher himself says “Don’t you know what ‘ther’ means?” Milne sort of gives up on explaining it.
Pooh’s friends Kanga and Roo, who have in effect to split one name between them, could be said to really bring down the average number of words per name.
I think that my father’s father’s family knew Wright slightly; they lived in Oak Park. I wonder if their being tall people had any consequences like that. I never heard.
Yeah, Kanga & Roo bring it down, but Small brings it up again — short for Very Small Beetle, he wouldn’t ever be called “Very Beetle”.
Well, I’m 5’6″ and I’d find it uncomfortable to be under 6’6″ ceilings. Even with the openness of the house, it would make me crazy. I’ve got 3 meter ceilings and they seem just about right to me. Even the small rooms in my apartment don’t feel cramped.
I don’t think the whole place is 6′-6″, just a few bits (e.g. the soffit by the windows). And I could be totally mixed up: at the Robie house it could be anything up to oh, say, 7′-0″. For my own satisfaction I googled the ceiling heights at the Robie house, but I didn’t turn anything up yet.
Even the small rooms in my apartment don’t feel cramped.
3 metres sounds terrific, almost ten feet. I know that feeling with small rooms, I had a minute apt in Greenwich Village with high ceilings.
James Ramsay MacDonald
Edward Morgan Forster
Keep it up, dearie…
I do think Lloyd George is a special case. Lloyd was not his second name, but his uncle’s family name which he added to his own because his uncle had been such an influence on him. Also, his children’s family name was Lloyd George, not George.
I think that Bonar Law and Ramsay Mac don’t fit, because everyone drops their first names when referring to them. (Like Clerk Maxwell, but unlike Alexander Graham Bell.) I wonder how
these people were known by their friends? Keynes was addressed as “Maynard”. E M Forster as “Morgan”. Did Mill’s friends call him “Jack”?
A few years ago I had the opportunity to visit the Frank Lloyd Wright estate, “Taliesin”, near Madison, Wisconsin. I had seen pictures of the house, inside and out, and they had seemed to me rather cold, but being actually inside the house was a wonderful experience. The furniture and all accessories were also designed or even built by him, so everything goes together, without being monotonous. I don’t remember the ceilings being particular low (I am barely 5’5″) but they are not high for the size of the rooms, and the doorways and passages between rooms are indeed rather low, so tall people have to duck. But unlike many houses of the rich and famous, this one really feels livable.
I’ve never been to Taliesin. How wonderful to go there. It has that weird and tragic history which led to its being rebuilt twice and then reworked a lot afterwards, so it ought to feel comfortable by now.
Charles Rennie Mackintosh – born in Vic’s days.
Come to think of it, no-one referred to W E Gladstone as Bill or Wullie. It was always William Ewart, wasn’t it?
As it happens, I saw “William Gladstone” only yesterday.
But Charles Rennie is a masterstroke.
You’re a recent immigrant.
Well, 1959 the first time and later, 1987 …
Yes, the GBS, but in the past he was usually just called Bernard Shaw in Britain.
Continue to disagree. Two elderly, born, breed and cultured Britishers insist they have never heard Bernard Shaw, always either George Bernard Shaw or GBS.
..born, bred and cultured ..
They can type correctly, too.
Unfortunately I can’t speak for everyone in Britain, yet, so I’ll have to refer you to the first three googles I get up (apparently it’s not just in Britain, either):
Bernard Shaw: a Brief Biography
Cary M. Mazer, University of Pennsylvania
Guest Dramaturg
G. Bernard Shaw (he hated the “George” and never used it, either personally or professionally) …
Bernard Shaw: The Ascent of the Superman By Sally Peters
Book overview
When he died in 1950, Bernard Shaw was a Nobel laureate hailed as the …
Pygmalion
Bernard Shaw
Based on classical myth, Bernard Shaw’s Pygmalion plays on the complex business of human relationships in a social world
You ought to tell the two elderly, etc., that he hated the “George” and never used it.
I like the word Shavian. For that matter, Thoreauvian. Are there other examples where a v enters in in forming a pseudo-Latin surname-derived adjective of devotion or studency?
(Boy, is that a bad sentence. How many bad words did I just make up?)
Two elderly, born, breed and cultured Britishers insist they have never heard Bernard Shaw, always either George Bernard Shaw or GBS.
“Bernard Shaw” -George: About 1,470,000 results. I have seen “Bernard Shaw” many, many times (including in the titles of the books our host cites — I used to work in bookstores until I had fully expiated my sins). I leave it to you whether to disillusion your elderly friends or let them continue in their bliss.
BERN’rd or b’rn ARD?
Marlovian.
I’ve always heard it as BERN’rd.
I’d never heard Thoreauvian before. I have to admit that I was an adult before I figured out that the Oxford names Bodleian (Library) and Ashmolean (Museum) were named after people called Bodley & Ashmole.
There are lots like Pavlovian & Hanoverian, but I don’t suppose they count using your criteria.
Speaking of the Bodley:
There’s a nice shrub called buddleia (a.k.a. butterfly bush — one nice thing about it is that attracts lots of butterflies, hummingbirds, sphinx moths, ….), named after a Buddley, I assume. But is it budd-l-AY-a or BUDD-lee-a? In our family we say the former, but professionals often say the latter.
I’ve never heard your pronunciation, how interesting. I (my family) always say BUDD-lia. It’s a bit like a lilac and it does have lots of butterflies. I’ve always liked it. My mother told me that in London it’s mostly found in (traditionally) working-class parts of the city.
I just ran across this in the book I’m copyediting:
“Although Rostovian modernizationist thinking had already been badly damaged …”
The reference is to Walt Rostow, if anyone remembers him.
Ah, and I see it’s not a one-off invention:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostovian_take-off_model
So maybe our pronunciation of buddleia (rhymes with (the way I say) “Oresteia”) is a quirky family thing. Probably my wife made it up and I went along. It’s mostly her fault.
GBS is always George etc here, I’ve not heard him called just George. Curious.
“Is there any paired given name and family name that does NOT yield a New Age musician, alternative-medicine practicioner, or psychic consultant? I look forward to hearing about your alter-egos…”
My common-as-muck pairing happily yields thousands of ghits for a county seat in Florida. Great for obscuring my already low internet profile.
Barlovian cyberspace.
Barrovian metamorphism.
Snovian disjunction.
Tied back to the OP: half-dozen GB hits for Longfellovian.
M., your Longfellovian link doesn’t seem to be working …
I’ve also heard Snovian used in connection with CP Snow — ah, that reminds me, CP Snow belongs on the 2 intitials pile.
Stuart, I was going to try and impress you by telling you that Curious George was written by George W. Bush’s college roommate, but now I see I’ve got the whole story mixed up and it must actually have been some other illustrated children’s book the roommate wrote.
http://books.google.com/books?as_q=longfellovian.
According to Wikipedia, Linnaeus named the genus Buddleja, often spelled Buddleia (pronounced /ˈbʌdliː.ə/), in honour of Reverend Adam Buddle (1662–1715), who was an English botanist and rector from Essex.
Buddle’s a funny name. I’d thought it must come from Buddley.
In that case, I’d say that budd-l-AY-a is better. The Emptys were right. Not that I’m planning on changing over, it’s too much work; but I may just stop using the word altogether.
No, it’s definitely BUD-lee-a, based on both the original surname and the conventions of Latin nomenclature in English.
Ford Madox Brown and his grandson
Ford Madox Ford
PK, thanks; of course.
I had no idea that FMF was the grandson of FMB, though I don’t what I thought was going on: coincidence? I’ve always thought FMF was a funny name, ever since I used to pass, on the way to school, a house in Campden Hill in London with one of those round blue plaques on the wall with his name on it. That was nearly fifty years ago.
…I had no idea that FMF was the grandson of FMB…
Nor had I until this morning. The two names lived side by side in my consciousness with a fuzzy itch that never resolved itself into a proper question,until today, when your post prompted some fact checking.
Glory be to the internet.
Yes, exactly. I bet there are lots of people with this itch. The truth is that at the age of seven or nine I associated Ford Madox Ford with a Daily Express cartoon of the time called Four D Jones by Maddocks.
4-dimensional Jones?
That’s probably the meaning of the name, although I never really understood it — or, at the time, the cartoon itself. For some reason it really stuck in my mind, though.
Am I allowed Arthur Conan Doyle? But not James Fenimore Cooper, I suppose.
And to break the Victorian thing, Stephen Jay Gould?
We had Sir Arthur Doyle, he was suggested somewhere by Dearieme. But James Cooper is a good one. Fenimore was his mother’s name, it says in Wikipedia.
Yes, Stephen Jay Gould we’ll enclose in brackets. (Stephen Jay Gould).
Sorry, this has been tumbling around in my head for some days:
I had a house in Harrow
I had a house in Harrow,
inherited.
Just like a mouse in marrow,
it was all mine, unmerited.
And soon my wife in waiting,
in weariness
from her old life in Leyton,
said yes to me, with leeriness.
I bought a spouse for splendor,
auspiciously.
She took my vows for vendor,
and spent it all, so viciously.
On Mayday market.
She took up dept from Dover
to Dyfedshire,
and then she let her lover,
a clergyman, come live with her.
The final gash, you get it,
was gordian:
I gave up cash and credit,
and left to play accordion.
On Mayday market
Poetry is always welcome here, but I’m not sure about the ending. Are you suggesting that I ought to cut up my wife’s credit cards?
I don’t know. I may have extrapolated slightly. Did she know about the house when she married you?
No, none of us knew. I always thought she was the rich one, she ought to be cutting up my credit cards.
Don’t show her this, then.
Terribly behind-times, but:
Ford Madox Ford made his silly name himself from materials at hand. First he changed his middle name from Hermann, and then, during the Great War, he patriotically changed his last name from Hueffer. Since he’d already published his most famous works this probably caused no end of confusion at bookstores and libraries, but Ford Madox Ford was a notoriously silly man.
Along W. Somerset lines, our brilliant contemporary “M. John Harrison” is known in the flesh as “Mike.”
It’s never too late.
I liked this, from your blog, by Peter Handke:
The trouble with great literature is that any asshole can identify with it.
A lot of people with German-sounding names changed them during WW1; but the same didn’t happen in WW2, did it? Had everybody got used to German names by then?
I think we could add C. Aubrey Smith (a great photograph they’ve got of him at Wikipedia) and T. Coraghessan Boyle in somewhere.
Madox Ford Madox would be a good stage name.
Or Brown Madox Brown.
Or Brown Madox Ford.
Since we’re getting into repetition, one of my favourite Victorians is the deeply obscure William Hale Hale.
The baseball player called J. D. Drew is David Jonathan Drew. (“JD” stands for “Jon Drew”.)
Sir Genielle Cave-Brown-Cave is so obscure he doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page.
One reason my best friend at school was my best friend was that he would ask me, for example, if it wasn’t me who had recently mentioned that I was related to the Cave-Brown-Caves. Nothing could have been less likely, but it was nice that at least one person felt differently.
I never heard that story. What a name. Sounds like a bat. Makes me think of Cyril Bassington-Bassington.
Debrett’s steerage?
Ha, ha, very good.
Or Lord Ascoyne d’Ascoyne.
James James Morrison Morrison Weatherby George Dupree.
There don’t seem to have been so many contra-Teutonic name changes in WWII. Jewish (or newly-defined-as-Jewish) refugees with Germanic names might have muddled matters, or maybe everyone was just too busy.
“Hueffer” had the benefit of onomatopoeia according to William Carlos Williams’s elegy:
“Provence, the fat assed Ford will never
again strain the chairs of your cafés
pull and pare for his dish your sacred garlic,
grunt and sweat and lick
his lips.”
Oh yes, William Carlos Williams, although the intent of that “Carlos” was if anything anti-Victorian.
Are those the same Cave-Brown-Caves who are related to the Broome-Stick-Broomes through the marriage of Lady Helen, daughter of old Sir Ranwald and his third wife, his second cousin Elizabeth (or was it the other way around? He was never really certain.), and the legendary Giles Long-Myles, who increased his wife’s fortune by providing opiates to promising poets, promising poets to young female inheritants, and female inheritants as investors in the opium trade, but later lost it when his plan to expand the business by providing chocolate to ballet dancers failed after the spectacular 1826 crack in the stage floor of the Royal House of Comic and Musical Diversion, and whose mother was of the prolific Cheshire Aubreys, a move that gained her father access to the Scottish hunting grounds of the Potte-Kettle-Blacks but cost him his treasured friendship with Sir Walter Basset-d’Hound?
Trond, when are we going read all the details of this family saga?
And are you related to Anthony Trollope, Trond? Or Evelyn Waugh, perhaps. I don’t see Sigrid Undset or Knut Hamsun here…
marie-lucie: You’ll have to ask AJP. It’s his family. I just relate what I’ve been told from family members. My 4 times great uncle Anthony was acquainted with the Bave-Crowns as a young boy in Harrow. Also my three magnitudes lesser uncle Evelyn was born and raised in the neighbourhood.
Evelyn Waugh grew up in Golders Green. Not too far away, I suppose.
Said Jerome K. Jerome to Ford Madox Ford, ‘There’s something, old boy, that I’ve always abhorred:
When people address me and call me’Jerome’,
Are they being standoffish, or too much at home?’ Said Ford,’I agree; It’s the same thing with me.’
-Cole,William ‘Mutual Problem’
Thank you for that. He’s got a very good point, like calling someone “tu” and “vous” simultaneously.
I once had a student called Richard Richard, and I met a Canadian linguist called Jean-Léonard Léonard. I think he calls himseld Jean Léonard now.
What’s wrong with those people’s parents? And did they have other children? In that case they might have been tempted to follow the example of the French family who named their sons Jean I, Jean II, Jean III, Jean IV and Jean V (a true story – I saw the announcement for Jean V in Le Figaro, when I was a teenager).
I wonder what he was called to his face by the parents? Cinq? Numéro cinq?
Marklar?
If you aren’t in the USA you just need a proxy server to view that. When you’ve chosen one, just paste in MMcM’s Marklar url, which is: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151555