My wife found these pictures, she was vague about where. She says they are African.
Julia sent me this cartoon because of our discussion, a couple of posts back, of odd & even numbers. According to Julia, the man says something like: “And now I have to be odd all the rest of the day”.
Julia currently has some pretty great pictures at her blog.
A Bad Guide 
¡jajajaja! Fantastic!
How they manage to do what is shown in the second and fourth picture? (here we call this “llevar a caballito” and in other places it’s known as “a cococho”)
Dunno. They don’t seem to mind. D. says they look after their goats in Africa; they milk them, they don’t eat them. There’s a scheme, I’ve forgotten the details, where you can give money for families in Africa to buy themselves a goat to graze the countryside. Then they can milk them, which I suppose would be fairly nourishing.
In English it’s a ‘piggyback’.
piggyback
The MW dictionary says: “alteration of earlier a pick pack, of unknown origin”. The German adverbial expression for this is huckepack, from Dutch says Duden. Hucken (also a German verb) means “load something onto the back while bent forward”. As it were “to shoulder something” except with the back instead of the shoulders. pack = back = Hucke = Rücken = “back”.
Today I met a goat that shares its outdoor domain with chickens and two Bavarian geese. I also encountered a thoroughbred Arabian horse and one of those stocky little Icelandic ponies that try to chomp your fist because they think it’s an apple. So I too have had some truck with Nature.
Oh come on Stu, tell us the whole story. We want the details (where were you, Bavaria? On a farm? How come?)
Anyway, it sounds like fun.
The OED has quite a lot to say about piggyback:
It’s not always a goat on a bike, is it? Sometimes the goat is on a bike rider rather.
In any case, if I were one of these goats I would graze on some of the hair lying under my nose. And if I were one of these bike riders, I wouldn’t like to have a billy goat breathing down my neck.
Piggy back, very interesting. Could you explain me what this oed’s example means?
c 1590 Greene Fr. Bacon ii. 89 Mary sir, hee’le straight bee on your pickpacke to know whether the feminine or the masculine gender be most worthy.
It sounds very funny to me, but I’m not sure if I understood it correctly.
I’m so glad to hear they take care of their goats in Africa, for a moment I suspected the piggy-backs ones were dead…
I join in the appeal for Stu: more details, please!
Did Mother Nature ungrumbly you (or just the opposite)? ;-)
Those OED citations are kind of difficult to understand, especially because when I copy them we lose the very elaborate system of italics, colours, capital letters and bolding. Apart from the colour, what it actually looked like before I copied it was:
c 1590 GREENE Fr. Bacon ii. 89 Mary sir, hee’le straight bee on your pickpacke to know whether the feminine or the masculine gender be most worthy.
That is, Robert Greene’s “Friar Bacon & Friar Bungay”, which has its own rather interesting Wikipedia entry.
It says immediately above: (With quot. c 1590 cf. back n. 23 d.), so I looked up definition 23 d. for Back, and it says on, upon the back of: weighing upon as a burden or incubus; falling upon as an assailant. also colloq., harassing, annoying. So get off my back: stop harassing or annoying me.
I think “Mary” is an asseveration (an emphatic confirmation), so “Mary sir” is like “Hell, yes!” nowadays.
My best guess is that it means something like:
That raises the question of what he meant by “gender”.
Graffiti goats. “But as the initial passions settled, many people became fond of the goats as image and metaphor — scruffy, independent, friendly, determined, one of the most humanlike creatures in the barnyard, with qualities many sheeplike humans might emulate.”
Yes, I saw that! I was thinking of posting it, but I couldn’t decide how to do it. Anyway, I agree with that sentiment.
Bananas in pyjamas.
The Nature artefacts were in a smallish town about 25 km from Cologne. Goats, chickens and geese were in a kind of backyard, the horses were elsewhere in a paddock with stall. The area is right next to a forest (the Ville) that stretches all the way to Bonn across the Venusberg and on to Bad Godesberg.
Since January I haven’t had to commute to Munich, so this wasn’t in Bavaria. I have work that I can do at home – code reviews, security reviews.
Wirklich ein Schmuckstück! I must try to remember that phrase. I wonder why Germany still has such large deciduous forests. In the courtyard garden behind our office in the middle of Hamburg, someone kept geese. It was so nice to see them there, it reminded me of 19C. fairytale. I was always too scared to get too close, though.
Bananas in pyjamas – is it a suggestion? I’m not sure what to make of it, dearie. A nice idea, but I’m not interested in sewing little outfits.
Let me guess: “bananas in pyjamas” is a Scottish expression from his childhood, the Hibernian equivalent of “goats on bikes”.
I suspect you mean “Caledonian”, Stu. -1.
Bananas in kilts?
And if I were one of these bike riders, I wouldn’t like to have a billy goat breathing down my neck.
Sig did a subtle link with his name again. I see I commented on that in 2009.
I just knew I should have checked on what “Hibernian” means exactly – something like “in the north”, is all I remembered. Seen from London, the former center of empire, that should be about right. Doubts remained, though, that I dismissed at my peril.
I always had bad grades in geography. It didn’t seem plausible to treat different places as essentially different. That may be why I liked topology, especially of smooth n-manifolds – everything looks locally like n-dimensional Euclidean space.
Another reason is that if different places are different, I can’t reason about them without getting off my butt and actually inspecting them. A lot of my interest in theoretical matters is motivated by laziness.
The main claim of The Critique of Pure Reason, as I have understood it (still haven’t read it), is that you must remain ignorant of places you can’t reach, whether or not you are too lazy even to try to visit them. So we must be content to reason about laziness.
Yer Greeks of Massalia (Marseilles) called the British Isles Prettanike. The second biggest of them – the one I think of as being the biggest of the Hebrides – became in Latin first “Iwernia” and later “Hibernia”.
AJP: thank you for your explanation of the OED example (I would have never understood what it really said)
I’m not surprised. Neither would I, without the OED.
Bananas in pyjamas
There is a German expression “Das ist Banane !“, meaning “that’s just silly/crazy”. It would be a suitable answer to the rhyming question “Warum ist die Banane krumm ?“
I thought that die Krummheit der Bananen was now strictly regulated by the EU and no longer a fit subject for humor.
Oh, that’s weird. I forgot that I have a WordPress identity as well as my secret identity.
Wow, he’s drawn a cartoon, written a song and translated it into German. Dearie’s pretty serious about bananas in pyjamas. Well, good luck to you. Just remember where you got the idea.
Schlafzimmer, wake up! You’ve got a calculus midterm at 7pm.
It’s just that Bs in Ps are, like goats going piggyback, incongruous.
Julia might agree.
Yes, dearie, of course I agree. And I may add that my younger daughter watched them on tv (I never follow her on this, thanks god!)
H/T Nourishing Obscurity
I liked this other one they’ve got:
Yeah, a security case incorporating a TV aerial of the era: a Wonderful Surprise for Christmas.
It says ‘anti-thief’, rather than ‘anti-theft’, which is about right. I see it being grabbed on the staircase of one of the new London buses.
” that you must remain ignorant of places you can’t reach” – do you know why he made that assertion? I’m not going anywhere, so if I followed this rule, I’d remain spectacularly ignorant until I die. I’m going to anyway, obviously, but for a “lover of wisdom” to discourage even the attempt to change that status seems strange.
Don’t worry Stuart. I think he’s talking about trips round the Universe or concepts like an afterlife, not nature safaris or tours of Italy. Don’t forget that Kant himself never left Königsberg during his long life, so I expect he was on your side.
My comment was just pseudo-donnish humor, or donnish pseudo-humor. Kant said that if you’re clever you might succeed in knowing yourself.(by introspecting really really hard, as Kant himself did), but you can never know reality (which he called the Ding-an-sich).
Similarly, you can’t know Italy if you’ve never been there. My doctoral thesis will be on Kant’s laziness.
A philosophical question, indeed. When I saw it I thought of “Noli altum sapere” a recommendation with a long history in Occidental culture
I believe that this English translation of Guinzburg’s work is the same I read in Spanish in his book Mitos, emblemas, indicios
Click to access Ginzburg-High-and-Low.pdf
Days, weeks of silence, and you all comment just as I’m going out…
“Noli altum sapere” a recommendation with a long history in Occidental culture
For instance Romans 11:20 (International Standard Version): “They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid!” [Noli altum sapere sed timere]
jajaja, AJP, how often we get what we have wished for in the wrong time?
Stu, of course, Saint Paul’s words were the beginning of all this, Guinzburg says the problem was the Vulgata’s translation, which points towards knowledge instead of arrogance
Gosh, Julia, I had imagined the Guinzburg paper was only about your favorite topic of emblemas, so I didn’t look at it immediately. Now I’ll read it !
=)
Oh, no, it’s not just about emblems… For me it’s a wonderful work.
Now, that we talk, can I ask you for a favor? Could you help me found this article? HAYES, Charles, “Symbol and Allegory: A Problem in Literary Theory”, German Review, 44 (1969), 283.
Any clue where I can get a copy?
Julia: the article appears to be available here via the “national licenses” that the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft (German Association for Research) acquires. As I have understood things so far, the DFG and other organisations in an “alliance” decide on whether to pay fees to electronic libraries in other countries, in order to acquire institutional access to them.
These German institutions then make them available to the general public through public libraries, but also to private persons with a permanent residence in Germany (that’s me). The site is formulated for bureaucrats, it seems, so it’s a bit hard to figure out what to do first, what to do next etc. in order to get my hands on that paper. I’ll step round the corner to the public library in my section of town and see if they can help me.
After reading a little more, I see I got it slightly wrong. The “alliance” that acquires access rights is a German organization called the Gemeinsamer Bibliotheksverbund [Library Sharing Consortium] that was set up by various German states and the Stiftung Preußischer Kulturbesitz. The DFG just subsidizes certain activities and license acquisitions by the consortium.
Stu, it IS very complicated. There’s a Spanish translator but I can’t figure out what to do… All I know is there’s no alliance with Argentina.
Thank you so much for your time, but please I don’t want to bother you so much. Or you’ll be grumbler…
This is not a problem for me, Julia. I had no idea that these institutional efforts are in progress to co-ordinate libraries electronically and internationally – and have been in progress for a long time, and are also for the benefit of the general public.
Apparently I don’t know what is involved in researching a subject. I thought that all you have to do is buy your own copies of what you need, sit around at home reading them, and then from time to time make profound remarks about their contents.
The bureaucratics don’t faze me. I just love surmounting obstacles, as Don Juan did too.
I just ordered the article, Julia. I don’t know how long it will take to arrive – possibly not long, because it seems that a library here in Cologne has back issues of the Germanic Review !!??
It was easy as pie. I acquired a library card at the city library extension around the corner. Only one woman was there who knew what I was talking about (the others were in training), but she knew everything. I am just amazed at how much has been modernized in libraries – I’ve been spending a lot of money at bookstores, but now I find that does not have to be the case in future.
The article will be printed out, not sent in electronic form, and I will have to pick it up at the library extension. That’s no problem – I get the impression that the library organizations don’t want people downloading whole libraries without paying a fee.
All you need to do now is send an email to stuart.clayton (at) gmx.de with your snailmail address, and I’ll mail the article when it arrives.
¡THANK YOU, STU!
Now I see that my comment from last night is not here (I suspected somenthing was wrong with my connection, don’t you worry Crown, I just mention it because I hate to appear as if I wouldn’t have answered Stu yesterday, and I did it, just a silly joke and another “thank you”, but I did it)
Well, Stu I’m very grateful, and you’re so very kind to tell all the obstacles you’ve surmount as if they were funny adventures for you…
But they are funny adventures. I get excited at the very idea that things will not be exactly as I expect them to be. That means I can raise a reasonable fuss, and people will come running to help deal with the difficult customer. Then I make some jokes about the way I am acting, everything ends in smiles and giggles and I’ve achieved my goal.
It’s all a bit melodramatic, but so much fun ! I think people appreciate these distractions from their boring work routine. I see myself as the W.C. Fields of bureaucracy.
Why is it so much pleasanter to shower in the daylight than in the dark?
You can see what you’re doing. It’s pleasanter to do practically everything to do with water in daylight, preferably sunlight. The best showers are outdoor ones; you can see rainbows, the water sparkles and there’s no hollow hissing noise.
>Dearieme
It could be similar to smoke. When you smoke in the dark you think that you aren’t smoking because you don’t see the smoke. It’s even a bit distressing.
I never thought of that.
I have a science question about smoking. The smoke that comes off a cigarette is a lovely bluish colour, but when someone inhales the smoke and blows it out again it comes out brownish-grey. It’s almost as if the lungs have made the smoke dirty, whereas we know it’s the reverse (i.e. the smoke makes the lungs dirty). So what causes the smoke’s colour to change?
Interesting question… Please, Jesús can you answer that?
Wait a minute, there’s something fishy here. I have never noticed any such difference in color. Is this an observation about filter cigarettes ?
I smoke self-rolled halfzwaar tobacco without filters. The smoke is always greyish white, both before and after processing in the respiratory tract. Of course over the months a yellowy brown film of tar/nicotine deposits itself on surfaces and penetrates fabrics such as curtains.
Back in the early ’80s, during a financial ebbtide that lasted many months, I tried collecting and recycling the remains of my self-rolled cigarettes (I never smoke them down to my fingers, usually discarding them only 2/3 smoked). I was using Gauloises tobacco at the time, which is a very strong tobacco,
In accordance with folklore practice, I put the smoked-through but unburnt tobacco from the butts into a plastic bag along with a slice of apple to restore moisture. When I smoked this, biting clouds of blue smoke resulted which I just couldn’t handle. Someone told me at the time it was probably prussic acid.
>A. J. P. Crown
Color of smoke changes because the size of particles changes so light scattering is different.
I was a walking dawn in the ’80s, a blue Lungendämmerung.
>Julia
I’m sorry. I answered before quickly because I couldn’t read all posts; I had to pick up my little daughter at 2:00 so I didn’t enough time although her school is a “one cigarette” of distance, as I say.
Light-scattering is the phenomenon you can see, for example, when the sun’s rays past a window and you see the dust in the room. Also, the color of sky is blue because these rays are scattered by atmospheric particles (although the color is related with energy too).
The smoke of a cigarette has a lot of particles besides some gases and they change in our lungs.
A good application of this phenomenon is the measurement of molecular weight of macromolecules owing to huge size.
Jesús: A good application of this phenomenon is the measurement of molecular weight of macromolecules owing to huge size.
Does that mean their molecular weight is measured by determining how light scatters from them ?
>Grumpy Stu
Yes, using light-scattering in polymers solutions you can calculate the called weight-average molecular weight. The huge size of polymers makes the light scatters whereas in a “normal” solution this phenomenon doesn’t happen.
Oh, no Jesús, don’t be sorry, I found your quick answer very satisfactory. Thank you!
Thank you Jesús! I’ve been worrying about that for years.
Stu, it was filter cigarettes I was thinking about. My mother used to smoke roll-ups, and I think they gave off blue smoke but I might be wrong. She used a cigarette holder. My relatives who smoked pipes used to put a slice of apple in the tobacco tin to keep the tobacco moist. You can later use the round tins, separating the lid from the base with a 25cm cylinder of chicken-wire filled with peanuts, as bird feeders.
Obviously, filter cigarettes also have a role in it. There, like in our lungs, the particles can agglutinate, stay, etc. Only we need to see a filter…or a X-ray.
>A. J. P. Crown, Julia
Probably I am the first smoker useful for you. I had to learn it in 1989 because I started to teach about polymers and I only knew that our word “polímero” has an accent. It doesn’t mean that now…
>Grumbly Stu
I smoke “Celtas”, a black tobacco equivalent to “Gauloises”, helmet included.
Jesús: Yes, using light-scattering in polymers solutions you can calculate the called weight-average molecular weight. The huge size of polymers makes the light scatter whereas in a “normal” solution this phenomenon doesn’t happen.
It seems to me that would make sense only on the assumption that, for the type of molecule in question, its “effective spatial volume” (responsible for scattering light) is in known proportion to the average molecular weight. In other words, most type A molecules (under certain conditions) would have to be strung out in the same way, most type B molecules (under certain conditions) crumpled up in the same way, and so on.
Is that the assumption that is being made here ?
>A. J. P. Crown, Julia Probably I am the first smoker useful for you.
No, not at all. All smokers are useful to me, well not all, in fact, just the ones that smoke blond filtered cigarettes: so I can ask them one!
I don’t smoke too much, the real difference is if I am in a period where I do buy and carry cigarettes with me or if I fed of the good willingness of the friends that smoke.
>Grumbly Stu
I’m sorry. You have to spoonfeed me. : -) A polymer in solution changes continuously the positions of its atoms. As Callister ( a famous professor) writes: “Polymers consist of large numbers of molecular chains, each of which may bend, coil, and kink in the manner of Figure 14.6.This leads to extensive intertwining and entanglement of neighboring chain molecules, a situation similar to a heavily tangled fishing line. These random coils and molecular entanglements…”
Probably you could understand better than my explanation with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_light_scattering
There you can see the Zimm plot that my students hated drawing in those exams.
I hardly ever meet smokers anymore, but when I do I sometimes ask for one.
… extensive intertwining and entanglement of neighboring chain molecules, a situation similar to a heavily tangled fishing line. These random coils and molecular entanglements…
OK, I understand a little better. But when the molecules entangle “randomly”, you get just such a kind of “effective spatial volume” as I was imagining ;-) , only statistical and diffuse.
The WiPe article explains that calibration and measurement at different concentrations is required. “Experiments are performed at several angles and at least 4 concentrations. Performing a Zimm analysis on a single concentration is known as a partial Zimm analysis and is only valid for dilute solutions of strong point scatterers.” I guess it is the different concentrations that provide the hook-in to molecular weight.
The basic theory and practice of static light scattering seems pretty simple, actually.
You can also keep your pipe tobacco moist with a slice of tattie. Oh I do miss smoking a pipe. I’ve never seen the attraction of cigarettes – foul bloody things. A cigar though, or even snuff, that’s quite different. I’ve never chewed baccy.
I tried the tattie gambit, but the tobacco then tended to smell like musty sprouting potatoes in the cellar.
>Grumbly Stu
I’m glad about it.
And yes, measurement at different concentrations and angles are required. Because you don’t need a translation and I’m slow, I’ll write you this text written by Llorente and Horta (two Spanish researchs and teachers in this subjets) that I have at home: “Cuando se tratan las interacciones entre macromoléculas distintas se ignora que en cada una de ellas hay interferencias, y cuando se tratan las interferencias dentro de una macromolécula se ignora que hay otras macromoléculas con las que interacciona. Esta división del problema es útil y no implica aproximaciones, porque es posible encontrar condiciones en las que cada uno de los dos efectos desaparece. Por tanto, los resultados que se obtienen con el tratamiento teórico que considera interacciones intermoleculares, ignorando interferencias intramoleculares, son rigurosamente válidos en el límite del ángulo tendiendo a 0, y los resultados que se obtienen con el tratamiento teórico que considera interferencias intramoleculares, ignorando interacciones intermoleculares, son rigurosamente válidos en el límite de concentración 0.”
Really, any molecular weight is always an average but because normally polymers are different size, except biological macromolecules: bodies make them better than chemists.
(I’m sorry for this dead boring; I shouldn’t have started smoking ;-))
In the biography of Harold Wilson I’m reading, it says he smoked the pipe in public but behind closed doors he preferred cigars. (I recommend this book to anyone who lived in Britain during the 1950s-70s, it’s fascinating.)
He also sipped pints in public but preferred brandy in private. I used to think that he and Heath must be the worst conceivable PMs until the advent of T. Blair.
They were bad, but I think Callaghan was much worse than Wilson and somewhat worse than Heath. Callaghan wasn’t bright like Tony Crosland* or insightful like Brown (for all Brown’s faults, he had common sense); he didn’t have new social ideas, unlike Jenkins, or economic ideas, unlike Wilson – or, of course, Thatcher. He was hopeless as Chancellor during the devaluation crisis from 66-9. He didn’t know anything, he just bumbled along and took the spirit of the country down with him, depressing little sod. He said he thought his role as PM should be doing as little as possible to upset things (I wish I could find that quote). Blair was in another league from them all, of course.
*I also hate Crosland, old boy of Highgate School, for saying he would get rid of the grammar schools if it was the last thing he did. If anything, he should have got rid of the public schools, but that was too hard for him so he took it out on poorer bright children. Anyway, thanks for ruining the chances of millions of kids, Tony.
Today, Topsy & I saw an otter walking over the melting ice, parallel to the bank of the lake. It looked to me as if it was about 60-70 cm long, half of which was its bushy tail. Dark reddish brown. It’s a shame I didn’t have a camera, but we were quite far away (150 metres). Topsy REALLY wanted to go over and say hello, but I felt the otter wanted some privacy, sort of like the time we encountered Madonna in an elevator in NY (I may have mentioned that).
Was the otter wearing a bra with cone-shaped tits ? It was a Madonna groupie, probably. You wouldn’t want to associate with that kind of animal.
And least of all, associate Topsy with them!
Wise words, Stu.
Julia, the article has arrived !! It’s somewhere in Cologne, supposedly at my library branch – but when I went there this afternoon 5 minutes before closing time, they pretended ignorance of its location. This is all so exciting !
Ohh! You’re too nice, Stu! You should change your nickname…
Thank you and don’t get yourself in too much (more) trouble.
I just wrote the following to Julia. It may be of general interest:
I’ve been wondering why I find this all so interesting and exciting. I think that it is because so much has been published in the last 100 years, probably 80% of it in the last 30 years. Since it is so easy to get something published, and since everybody wants to add their 5 cents to the history of opinions, I expect that most of what was published will have been consigned to a garbage can instead of an archive.
Thus I would have expected that it is easier to order a reprint of an article from some periodical in the 19C than from one in the 20C.
In my philosophy and sociology readings, I have encountered frequent references to several “obscure” books from the ’50s and `60s that are no longer in print. Even only 4 years ago I couldn’t locate them. Now I find them being reprinted, and can locate them through such library services as the German “DigiBib”. Fabulous !
It’s great you were able to do that, Stu. Thanks to my mother’s residency I just joined the Richmond public library in London, which gives me access to all sorts of British things, like the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. If anyone needs an article from something like that, just let me know.
I still can’t get into jstor, though.
The DNB ! You bet I have taken good note of that. While we’re on the subject … does it have an article on George Spencer-Brown ?
Don’t you have to pay an expensive subscription fee to gain access to JStor ?
The DNB only has articles on the following, I quote:
As far as I can see, George Spencer-Brown is still with us.
I think you can get into JStor via a university, but I expect they accept money too.
Oh yes, Spencer-Brown is still around – writing slightly kooky books. But Luhmann’s central analytic method in sociology – considering things in the light of various binary, System/Umwelt distinctions – originated with Spencer-Brown’s Laws of Form.
Luhmann apparently discovered these ideas in the 1969 edition of Laws of Form, which I finally acquired 3 days ago. He refers again and again to Spencer-Brown in all his works. This annoys the hell out of many German sociologists, even the Luhmannians among them.
I just read Norbert Bolz’ Ratten im Labyrinth about Luhmann’s work, for instance. He complains bitterly about the references to Spencer-Brown, saying “who is this guy ? Nobody has ever heard of him”. He suggests that Luhmann’s one-man operation to produce a Theory of Society all on his own – overturning everything every famous person in the past has written on the subject – left him with no option but to cite obscure writers.
There is much more to this, though (I hope to write a longish article or two about it soon). Glancing through Laws of Form, I see that it is in certain ways a book of the hippiefied ’60s. At one point S-B encourages the reader to understand something he has just said as a “psychedelic” insight. S-B studied under R.D. Laing to become a psychiatrist (or whatever you call those people).
I can see why this is all Too Much for the common breed of academic sociologist in Germany. Enter Althippie Stu to knock some heads together.
Otters are never OT.
I couldn’t immediately figure out what “OT” means, so I looked in the Urban Dictionary. It has this strange entry:
5.- Ot. A word used to replace the number “zero”.
Farther down I found an example sentence with this “Ot”:
5.-“He was born in 19-Ot-6”
What is the world coming to ??
“What is the world coming to?” is a very Old Testament sentiment.
Anyone know whether otters appear in the Bible? A plague of otters? Noah’s ark? I don’t know if they live in the Middle East. There aren’t any polar bears in the Bible as far as I know (not very far).
Slightly OT, but I found this confusing Wikipedia page, List of Animals in the Bible, which includes the following entry:
Interesting page.
You should tell the girls that GOATS have star appearance in NT (ask John the Baptist)
Cricket is mentioned in Deuteronomy. So much for Jews not being good at sports.
Goats! I didn’t even think to look…
>A. J. P. Crown
About “rat”, it depends on version. You can read it here: http://bible.cc/leviticus/11-29.htm
You can look up animals in the Bible better here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01517a.htm
>Julia
John and the lamb (of God), not goat. Imagine you if we in Spanish say “el cabrito de Dios” instead “el cordero de Dios”. It could be even blasphemous : -)
¡jajajaja! Qué idiota que soy!
Of course, i always get confused with lamb and goat (obviously I’m a city gall)
Separating the sheep from the goats: there the goats don’t come off so well.
Yes, yes, you’re absolutely right!
Don’t tell the girls their race is discriminated by the Bible, then.
>Julia
I confess that I always mistake Crown’s goats with lambs because of it hair. I’ve never seen this kind of goats.
They’re angora (= Ankara) goats. I think the Ankara region of Anatolia was really just a stop on their trek westwards, they may have originated in Afghanistan.
We saw feral Angora goats in the northern Flinders ranges. That was a while ago, mind.
A J P Crown stated that the Africans only milk the goats, they don’t eat them. My friends went to Senegal to visit their son & the goat that had been tied up was killed & eaten.